THE PISH
BETWEEN TWO
SHITTYS
Livingston is a "new town" in central Scotland, between Edinburgh [15 miles to the east] and
Glasgow [35 miles west].
It sprang up in the late 60's to deal with the overspill from both these cities.
Up until the late 80's it was nothing more than a vast concrete jungle of houses, car parks, one
shopping centre and not much else! A real "soulless" place - the perfect breeding ground for an
army of punk rockers! [and senseless violence, sadly!]
By 78/79 [when the rest of us caught up with London] there were loads of punks in Livingston
and a few bands. (See List below)
Early '79 and I was 11 years old and got my 1st punk record, THE DICKIES - 'Banana Splits', and was hooked! Some of
the older punks who were going to gigs/pubs in Glasgow and Edinburgh and at local gigs had a terrible reputation for
violence and it basically stayed that way for nearly 10 years! Crazy! A real shame as there were tons of positive people in
the Livi punk scene but the negative punks seemed to rule by fear.
Every gig became a riot zone and punk gigs got banned in Edinburgh for around 3 or 4 years in the early 80's! The 'Livi
punkz' had a notorious reputation everywhere they went. Which was justified, I think communication, help and friendship
between punks from all over would have been better than petty tribal warfare, was it like this in other parts of the UK? I
dunno? (Certainly was in Wolves -PDC)
BETWEEN TWO
SHITTYS
Livingston is a "new town" in central Scotland, between Edinburgh [15 miles to the east] and
Glasgow [35 miles west].
It sprang up in the late 60's to deal with the overspill from both these cities.
Up until the late 80's it was nothing more than a vast concrete jungle of houses, car parks, one
shopping centre and not much else! A real "soulless" place - the perfect breeding ground for an
army of punk rockers! [and senseless violence, sadly!]
By 78/79 [when the rest of us caught up with London] there were loads of punks in Livingston
and a few bands. (See List below)
Early '79 and I was 11 years old and got my 1st punk record, THE DICKIES - 'Banana Splits', and was hooked! Some of
the older punks who were going to gigs/pubs in Glasgow and Edinburgh and at local gigs had a terrible reputation for
violence and it basically stayed that way for nearly 10 years! Crazy! A real shame as there were tons of positive people in
the Livi punk scene but the negative punks seemed to rule by fear.
Every gig became a riot zone and punk gigs got banned in Edinburgh for around 3 or 4 years in the early 80's! The 'Livi
punkz' had a notorious reputation everywhere they went. Which was justified, I think communication, help and friendship
between punks from all over would have been better than petty tribal warfare, was it like this in other parts of the UK? I
dunno? (Certainly was in Wolves -PDC)
Maybe it was the glue?! Livingston was covered in used glue bags back then and the punks were
[nearly] all at it. It was so depressing and repressive. The repercussions are still felt to this day as over the years, punk
bands from Livi were treated with fear, disinterest and/or contempt by the rest of Scotland's punks. It gradually got better
but other sections of the scene never forgot the early days 'mugging' of the scene by a minority of Livi punks and Skins
who spoiled it for the majority.
At least they spread it around - also battered were the mods, Police [one of the big cheeses in the Livi scene killed a
police dog with one swing of his steel toe capped D.M.!!] and anyone else stupid enough to get in the way.
But in the middle of all this warfare there was lots of good stuff too - I saw my first gig in 1980, aged 12.
An open air gig at a youth club by GLASGOW SS. [A local band, they were
all 'overspill' from Glasgow, the SS bit stood for 'social security' -
apparently!]
The singer Stench, stopped singing after the first song and sat at the side
of the stage in a mood for the rest of the short set!? Weird! Anyway, the
band carried on with the guitarist and bass player singing at the choruses.
They did 'I'm An Upstart' but the gig was a letdown cos of Stench!
He was replaced by a punk called Chic Fullerton [who had a 'circled' R on
his bike jacket??] and the band was much better.
They made some demos and played a few good gigs but never made it
onto vinyl. Pity as they had a great guitarist in Bongo - he was excellent, in
the vein of UK SUBS Nicky Garratt he went on to be in another local band
MOLOTOV COCKTAIL. My second gig was a turbo charged set by UGEN
KAMPF at another local youth club. This was early 1981 and I was 13. [the Todd brothers lain and Ralph were in this
band. They went on to be in BARBED WIRE/MOLOTOV COCKTAIL and CHINESE BURN.]
I thought they looked great - all dyed, spikey hair, studs, bondage gear etc...and the songs just blew me away. Real
quality punk rock in the flesh for the first time.
At 13 years old this was like seeing the PISTOLS/CLASH/DAMNED etc in 77! I thought bombs were going off all around
me - I felt I was plugged into the mains! Sounds mad but it's true!
I had a churning in my stomach of pure excitement and adrenalin. [that I had at every gig for the next 3 years til I got used
to it!] and I just wanted to go crazy to this superb punk music but was too scared to cos I didn't know how to! And thought
the older punks would laugh or I'd be trampled underfoot!
Another band criminally ignored, seeing UGEN KAMPF made me want to be in a punk band of my own -10 years later, I
was!!
[nearly] all at it. It was so depressing and repressive. The repercussions are still felt to this day as over the years, punk
bands from Livi were treated with fear, disinterest and/or contempt by the rest of Scotland's punks. It gradually got better
but other sections of the scene never forgot the early days 'mugging' of the scene by a minority of Livi punks and Skins
who spoiled it for the majority.
At least they spread it around - also battered were the mods, Police [one of the big cheeses in the Livi scene killed a
police dog with one swing of his steel toe capped D.M.!!] and anyone else stupid enough to get in the way.
But in the middle of all this warfare there was lots of good stuff too - I saw my first gig in 1980, aged 12.
An open air gig at a youth club by GLASGOW SS. [A local band, they were
all 'overspill' from Glasgow, the SS bit stood for 'social security' -
apparently!]
The singer Stench, stopped singing after the first song and sat at the side
of the stage in a mood for the rest of the short set!? Weird! Anyway, the
band carried on with the guitarist and bass player singing at the choruses.
They did 'I'm An Upstart' but the gig was a letdown cos of Stench!
He was replaced by a punk called Chic Fullerton [who had a 'circled' R on
his bike jacket??] and the band was much better.
They made some demos and played a few good gigs but never made it
onto vinyl. Pity as they had a great guitarist in Bongo - he was excellent, in
the vein of UK SUBS Nicky Garratt he went on to be in another local band
MOLOTOV COCKTAIL. My second gig was a turbo charged set by UGEN
KAMPF at another local youth club. This was early 1981 and I was 13. [the Todd brothers lain and Ralph were in this
band. They went on to be in BARBED WIRE/MOLOTOV COCKTAIL and CHINESE BURN.]
I thought they looked great - all dyed, spikey hair, studs, bondage gear etc...and the songs just blew me away. Real
quality punk rock in the flesh for the first time.
At 13 years old this was like seeing the PISTOLS/CLASH/DAMNED etc in 77! I thought bombs were going off all around
me - I felt I was plugged into the mains! Sounds mad but it's true!
I had a churning in my stomach of pure excitement and adrenalin. [that I had at every gig for the next 3 years til I got used
to it!] and I just wanted to go crazy to this superb punk music but was too scared to cos I didn't know how to! And thought
the older punks would laugh or I'd be trampled underfoot!
Another band criminally ignored, seeing UGEN KAMPF made me want to be in a punk band of my own -10 years later, I
was!!
By 1981 there was nearly 37,000 people in Livingston
(official council statement) and hundreds [well it looked
that way] of them were punks!
Punk was huge in the UK at that time and so many
bands came from this one town it's gotta be a punk rock
record breaker!! [see list]
OK, back to the aggro. Not sure how much fighting went
on in Glasgow by the Livi boys as Glasgow is one of the
most violent cities in the UK (always has been, always
will be] and has more than it's fair share of nutters but
Edinburgh took a pounding - but for the record there
was one young chap called Wattie Buchan who was
always up for a scrap.
He'd be at the front lobbing bottles at the Livi punks
against overwhelming odds!
I was very young at the time and a lot of this is second
hand information but I'm led to believe he never backed
down.
There was a real hatred between Livi/Edinburgh punks
back then - 79/80/81 but funnily enough Wattie became
friends with some of the top dogs in the Livi scene!!
(official council statement) and hundreds [well it looked
that way] of them were punks!
Punk was huge in the UK at that time and so many
bands came from this one town it's gotta be a punk rock
record breaker!! [see list]
OK, back to the aggro. Not sure how much fighting went
on in Glasgow by the Livi boys as Glasgow is one of the
most violent cities in the UK (always has been, always
will be] and has more than it's fair share of nutters but
Edinburgh took a pounding - but for the record there
was one young chap called Wattie Buchan who was
always up for a scrap.
He'd be at the front lobbing bottles at the Livi punks
against overwhelming odds!
I was very young at the time and a lot of this is second
hand information but I'm led to believe he never backed
down.
There was a real hatred between Livi/Edinburgh punks
back then - 79/80/81 but funnily enough Wattie became
friends with some of the top dogs in the Livi scene!!
Figs, Bear and Bongo (different one) spring to mind [they even get a mention on the thanks list on 'Punks Not Dead']
maybe he knew them from before or maybe they finally had mutual respect for each other after years of kicking the shit out
of each other, who knows?
But there was a lot of EXPLOITED fans in Livingston and the name was painted on a few leathers....
also, Billy [bass master general from the SKROTEEZ joined THE EXPLOITED in 1983 to play on their 'Lets Start A War'
album and UK tour. [Bear got him involved], so finally the warfare was over!
[But it was the end of the SKROTEEZ] Billy went back for another stint in 1996 and did a 40 date European tour with Wattie
and co.
Also from Livi, Gogo [BAYONET BABIES guitarist] joined THE EXPLOITED in 1990 [I think] to play on their 'Massacre'
album, and world tour.
Surely the best punk guitarist from Livingston bar none! Like billy another punk music genius!
maybe he knew them from before or maybe they finally had mutual respect for each other after years of kicking the shit out
of each other, who knows?
But there was a lot of EXPLOITED fans in Livingston and the name was painted on a few leathers....
also, Billy [bass master general from the SKROTEEZ joined THE EXPLOITED in 1983 to play on their 'Lets Start A War'
album and UK tour. [Bear got him involved], so finally the warfare was over!
[But it was the end of the SKROTEEZ] Billy went back for another stint in 1996 and did a 40 date European tour with Wattie
and co.
Also from Livi, Gogo [BAYONET BABIES guitarist] joined THE EXPLOITED in 1990 [I think] to play on their 'Massacre'
album, and world tour.
Surely the best punk guitarist from Livingston bar none! Like billy another punk music genius!
Not much to do in Livi back then [changed days now!]
Nowhere for bands to play except schools and youth clubs.
The Tower pub was the punks pub but they didn't do live
bands till the late 80's when it was dying out!
Down by the river the punks had a campfire for years where
they would get pissed, sniff glue and fight! The shopping
centre on a Saturday afternoon was the focal point. Here I
have to mention RAINBOW RECORDS - it was a mecca for
every punk record that came out, they were all up on the wall
and in the window. Also had punk T-shirts in the early days
and if you wanted a punk badge, they had hundreds!
Great shop, really crucial for us younger punks who didn't
have the money or know how to get into Edinburgh or Glasgow to get stuff. The shop manager was taken to court by an
angry mother who heard her sons SEX PISTOLS - 'Some Product' album, the one with tons of swearing on it!!
Can't remember the verdict.
Anyway, at the shops. All the punks would gather at a certain wall and pose then walk round and round and round posing.
This was great to see [especially the punkettes Hooh la la...] as some of the hairstyles, bondage gear, leather jacket
painting etc..were brilliant.I got loads of inspiration for perfecting my 'punk' look a few years later as I couldn't at the time
being only 13
or whatever and living with a real violent father.
I was treated like shit by him for years - my crime? Being into punk rock!!
He fucking hated the fact I was into punk with a vengeance. It was a real struggle to live in an enviroment like that and I
embraced the punk scene totally even though he tried to crush it out of me.
I had to cling onto it desperately as I felt I was slowly suffocating in this nightmare of mental and sometimes physical
torture. Looking back on those times fills me with bitterness, anger and hatred.
I felt I was the only guy in the world getting shit from their parents because of my choice of music and it just wasn't fair. I
would have had it easier from him if I was a murderer or something.
What the fuck was it all about???? Anyway, back to the shopping centre - 2 jacket designs really caught my eye back then
- Crany [BAYONET BABIES drummer] had FUCK RELIGION in huge white capital letters on his bike jacket - looked great
as he picked his way through the shoppers and another punk had a massive CRASS patch safety pinned to the back of
his army jacket with what looked like 2000 pins!! Excellent!
Ecky [UK ANARCHISTS guitarist] stayed at CRASSHOUSE for a while around this time.
Oddly there was only ever one fanzine that I know of from the town. It was called CULTand was made by the manager of
ON PAROLE - I think? I've still never seen a copy.
I saw a few local bands gigs over the next two years before I finally saw a
'Big' punk band [Test Tube Babies - in Glasgow 83] and they were all
great - 1ST OFFENCE [my fave local band - finally got a single out late 83
- see list, pity the cover was so poor! but it done ok in the punk chart]
SKROTEEZ/ GLASGOW SS/ ABUSE/ RED ALERT - ANTI SOCIAL - ]
BAYONET BABIES/ UK ANARCHISTS/ DISGUST/ BARBED WIRE (THE
FIRST LOCAL BAND TO MAKE AN ALBUM,CAME OUT.IN 86 - SEE LIST] /
UGEN KAMPF/ MOLOTOV COCKTAIL/ INTERNAL DIMENSIONS.
All great bands sadly some of them only did a few gigs then folded. I can't
recall any 'outside' bands ever playing here. There was talk of BLITZ and
THE PARTISANS playing at a local high school and DEAD MANS
SHADOW at a youth club but both fell through.
The SUBHUMANS did play in Bathgate (5 miles away] in 1984 and the
whole gig was rammed with Livi punkz. BAYONET BABIES did manage to
blag their way into a quick support slot and they played WHITE RIOT along
with there own excellent material,good times.
Nowhere for bands to play except schools and youth clubs.
The Tower pub was the punks pub but they didn't do live
bands till the late 80's when it was dying out!
Down by the river the punks had a campfire for years where
they would get pissed, sniff glue and fight! The shopping
centre on a Saturday afternoon was the focal point. Here I
have to mention RAINBOW RECORDS - it was a mecca for
every punk record that came out, they were all up on the wall
and in the window. Also had punk T-shirts in the early days
and if you wanted a punk badge, they had hundreds!
Great shop, really crucial for us younger punks who didn't
have the money or know how to get into Edinburgh or Glasgow to get stuff. The shop manager was taken to court by an
angry mother who heard her sons SEX PISTOLS - 'Some Product' album, the one with tons of swearing on it!!
Can't remember the verdict.
Anyway, at the shops. All the punks would gather at a certain wall and pose then walk round and round and round posing.
This was great to see [especially the punkettes Hooh la la...] as some of the hairstyles, bondage gear, leather jacket
painting etc..were brilliant.I got loads of inspiration for perfecting my 'punk' look a few years later as I couldn't at the time
being only 13
or whatever and living with a real violent father.
I was treated like shit by him for years - my crime? Being into punk rock!!
He fucking hated the fact I was into punk with a vengeance. It was a real struggle to live in an enviroment like that and I
embraced the punk scene totally even though he tried to crush it out of me.
I had to cling onto it desperately as I felt I was slowly suffocating in this nightmare of mental and sometimes physical
torture. Looking back on those times fills me with bitterness, anger and hatred.
I felt I was the only guy in the world getting shit from their parents because of my choice of music and it just wasn't fair. I
would have had it easier from him if I was a murderer or something.
What the fuck was it all about???? Anyway, back to the shopping centre - 2 jacket designs really caught my eye back then
- Crany [BAYONET BABIES drummer] had FUCK RELIGION in huge white capital letters on his bike jacket - looked great
as he picked his way through the shoppers and another punk had a massive CRASS patch safety pinned to the back of
his army jacket with what looked like 2000 pins!! Excellent!
Ecky [UK ANARCHISTS guitarist] stayed at CRASSHOUSE for a while around this time.
Oddly there was only ever one fanzine that I know of from the town. It was called CULTand was made by the manager of
ON PAROLE - I think? I've still never seen a copy.
I saw a few local bands gigs over the next two years before I finally saw a
'Big' punk band [Test Tube Babies - in Glasgow 83] and they were all
great - 1ST OFFENCE [my fave local band - finally got a single out late 83
- see list, pity the cover was so poor! but it done ok in the punk chart]
SKROTEEZ/ GLASGOW SS/ ABUSE/ RED ALERT - ANTI SOCIAL - ]
BAYONET BABIES/ UK ANARCHISTS/ DISGUST/ BARBED WIRE (THE
FIRST LOCAL BAND TO MAKE AN ALBUM,CAME OUT.IN 86 - SEE LIST] /
UGEN KAMPF/ MOLOTOV COCKTAIL/ INTERNAL DIMENSIONS.
All great bands sadly some of them only did a few gigs then folded. I can't
recall any 'outside' bands ever playing here. There was talk of BLITZ and
THE PARTISANS playing at a local high school and DEAD MANS
SHADOW at a youth club but both fell through.
The SUBHUMANS did play in Bathgate (5 miles away] in 1984 and the
whole gig was rammed with Livi punkz. BAYONET BABIES did manage to
blag their way into a quick support slot and they played WHITE RIOT along
with there own excellent material,good times.
In 1982, the SKROTEEZ became the first Livi punk band
with a record released. Their 3 track 'Overspill' EP wasn't
the best punk record of 82 but it was also far from the
worst - got a decent review in 'Sounds' punk section.[are
they the only band ever to incorporate the 'death march'
into a song??? - see intro and riff to 'Livi punkz'] classic!
They got some gigs down south cos of this release and
supported THE BUSINESS at skunx in London. The gig
was a disaster though as Hendo [singer] had drank a
bottle of whisky before he went onstage - halfway
through the first song he passed out, fell off the stage
and didn't get back up 'gig over! [I think ON PAROLE
played at skunx too.]
At Drifters in Manchester, the SKROTEEZ were
supporting the UK SUBS when a riot broke out between
the Livi punkz who'd went down to the gig, and the
Manchester punks - huge glass ashtrays thrown at each
other.
with a record released. Their 3 track 'Overspill' EP wasn't
the best punk record of 82 but it was also far from the
worst - got a decent review in 'Sounds' punk section.[are
they the only band ever to incorporate the 'death march'
into a song??? - see intro and riff to 'Livi punkz'] classic!
They got some gigs down south cos of this release and
supported THE BUSINESS at skunx in London. The gig
was a disaster though as Hendo [singer] had drank a
bottle of whisky before he went onstage - halfway
through the first song he passed out, fell off the stage
and didn't get back up 'gig over! [I think ON PAROLE
played at skunx too.]
At Drifters in Manchester, the SKROTEEZ were
supporting the UK SUBS when a riot broke out between
the Livi punkz who'd went down to the gig, and the
Manchester punks - huge glass ashtrays thrown at each
other.
Tables and chairs used as weapons. Pint glasses
thrown - real intense violence! The cops showed
up, took one look in the door, closed them and
fucked off! - priceless!
The SUBS didn't get to play as the place was
trashed.Strange but true-some of the Livi storm
troopers and the Manchester mob who were
beating each other senseless became good
mates and still are to this day!!!!
One of them, Keith Willocks was best man at my
wedding in 2003! I have to mention Livi punk,
Bomber, who had a huge CLASH -'Give Em
Enough Rope' picture painted on his
bedroom wall - he died in the 80's after he missed
just one of his jabs for being a diabetic. R.I.P.
Big guy.
Some of the characters worth mentioning from
the early 80's Livingston punk scene were:
Coco - his 'Union Jack' hair will never be forgotten! [by me anyway!] / Boris - Sid Vicious clone turned total Crass clone -
he covered the town in Crass stencils spraypaint!/and gogo again - I saw him in Rainbow Records wearing kids plastic
sunglasses [like captain sensible] with a chain going from the sunglasses to his earring which had a tea bag hanging off
it, to top that he had 'I Don't Care' written on his back in huge letters! Superb!
It was a pleasure to work with him in SWINE FLU. Fifteen years later and the same with Billy in SWINE FLU and
EXTERNAL MENACE.
The biggest gig in Livi happened in 1989 with THE STRANGLERS playing at the Forum [now demolished] the whole town
turned up and coach loads came from all over. The gig was sold out and brilliant.
The violence had all but stopped by the late 80's. The UK punk scene was really struggling at this point and although
Livi has always been a punk stronghold, it took it's toll here too.
A lot of the original punks had drifted off the scene, nearly all the bands had dried up. But the new breed (like me!) were
coming through. By now 99% of the hooligans had gone but we still had to deal with the stigma of being 'Llivi punkz' and
were rarely given the benefit of the doubt even though we had nothing to do with the earlier years. Violence and
ignorance.
Gigs and records were getting less and less - it was lean times for us punks!
By 1990 I managed to get a band going [although it only lasted a few months of rehearsals] and knew this was what I
had always wanted to do with my life - to be the singer in a punk rock band [well, I couldn't play any instruments or I'd
gladly have settled for that].
In Livingston by this time there was only one punk band left, MOLOTOV COCKTAIL, in contrast to a few years before
when there was shitloads!
Late 1990 and I joined another band.
We ended up being called NOTHING TO SAY? - crap name
but we were ok for a bunch of young punks in their first
proper band.
Did one demo and played 7 gigs. One with UK SUBS and
two with JETT RINK [ex - EXTERNAL MENACE] before we
crashed and burned. Late 1991 and some of N.T.S?
became SWINE FLU.
We were together 4 years [with a few line up changes, made
some records and comp; stuff [see list] and played all over
the UK [but not enough!] and supported loads of our punk
rock heroes!
SWINE FLU were the first Livi punk band to play in Europe -
two tours, '94 & '95. Fuckin brilliant.
I'll never forget our first gig in Europe, in Hamburg November
'94 - [supporting SCHWARTZENEGGAR] watching from the
stage as Steve Ignorant and Ben were pogoing to us!!! What
a vision......When SWINE FLU started happening it seemed
to kick start the punk scene in Livingston again and soon
there was loads more punks again and [shortly] more bands.
This also had a knock on effect in Edinburgh as we played loads of gigs there and always went to other gigs and clubs in
the capital.
BODY COUNT [supported by THE EXPLOITED!!!!] played at the Forum in 1993 but it was only half full. SWINE FLU split
late '95 after one to many line up changes and I joined the re-formed EXTERNAL MENACE on vocals.
A dream come true as they were always my fave punk band from the 80's, along with GBH.
We played all over the UK and Captain Oi! records released the 'Pure Punk Rock' CD [14 old songs from the 80's and 6
new ones) late 95.
A few line up changes later and it's 1997. Sneddy [E.M. guitarist and only original member has moved in to my humble
abode and we've recruited Billy and Stu [ex-DENTS/ SKROTEEZ/ EXPLOITED/ SWINE FLU] so now EXTERNAL
MENACE is based in Livi. [only Jobe didn't come from the town].
We brought out the first EXTERNAL MENACE record in 13 years, then another then the first ever proper album [see list
by the band. ,, It had taken 18 years!!!
thrown - real intense violence! The cops showed
up, took one look in the door, closed them and
fucked off! - priceless!
The SUBS didn't get to play as the place was
trashed.Strange but true-some of the Livi storm
troopers and the Manchester mob who were
beating each other senseless became good
mates and still are to this day!!!!
One of them, Keith Willocks was best man at my
wedding in 2003! I have to mention Livi punk,
Bomber, who had a huge CLASH -'Give Em
Enough Rope' picture painted on his
bedroom wall - he died in the 80's after he missed
just one of his jabs for being a diabetic. R.I.P.
Big guy.
Some of the characters worth mentioning from
the early 80's Livingston punk scene were:
Coco - his 'Union Jack' hair will never be forgotten! [by me anyway!] / Boris - Sid Vicious clone turned total Crass clone -
he covered the town in Crass stencils spraypaint!/and gogo again - I saw him in Rainbow Records wearing kids plastic
sunglasses [like captain sensible] with a chain going from the sunglasses to his earring which had a tea bag hanging off
it, to top that he had 'I Don't Care' written on his back in huge letters! Superb!
It was a pleasure to work with him in SWINE FLU. Fifteen years later and the same with Billy in SWINE FLU and
EXTERNAL MENACE.
The biggest gig in Livi happened in 1989 with THE STRANGLERS playing at the Forum [now demolished] the whole town
turned up and coach loads came from all over. The gig was sold out and brilliant.
The violence had all but stopped by the late 80's. The UK punk scene was really struggling at this point and although
Livi has always been a punk stronghold, it took it's toll here too.
A lot of the original punks had drifted off the scene, nearly all the bands had dried up. But the new breed (like me!) were
coming through. By now 99% of the hooligans had gone but we still had to deal with the stigma of being 'Llivi punkz' and
were rarely given the benefit of the doubt even though we had nothing to do with the earlier years. Violence and
ignorance.
Gigs and records were getting less and less - it was lean times for us punks!
By 1990 I managed to get a band going [although it only lasted a few months of rehearsals] and knew this was what I
had always wanted to do with my life - to be the singer in a punk rock band [well, I couldn't play any instruments or I'd
gladly have settled for that].
In Livingston by this time there was only one punk band left, MOLOTOV COCKTAIL, in contrast to a few years before
when there was shitloads!
Late 1990 and I joined another band.
We ended up being called NOTHING TO SAY? - crap name
but we were ok for a bunch of young punks in their first
proper band.
Did one demo and played 7 gigs. One with UK SUBS and
two with JETT RINK [ex - EXTERNAL MENACE] before we
crashed and burned. Late 1991 and some of N.T.S?
became SWINE FLU.
We were together 4 years [with a few line up changes, made
some records and comp; stuff [see list] and played all over
the UK [but not enough!] and supported loads of our punk
rock heroes!
SWINE FLU were the first Livi punk band to play in Europe -
two tours, '94 & '95. Fuckin brilliant.
I'll never forget our first gig in Europe, in Hamburg November
'94 - [supporting SCHWARTZENEGGAR] watching from the
stage as Steve Ignorant and Ben were pogoing to us!!! What
a vision......When SWINE FLU started happening it seemed
to kick start the punk scene in Livingston again and soon
there was loads more punks again and [shortly] more bands.
This also had a knock on effect in Edinburgh as we played loads of gigs there and always went to other gigs and clubs in
the capital.
BODY COUNT [supported by THE EXPLOITED!!!!] played at the Forum in 1993 but it was only half full. SWINE FLU split
late '95 after one to many line up changes and I joined the re-formed EXTERNAL MENACE on vocals.
A dream come true as they were always my fave punk band from the 80's, along with GBH.
We played all over the UK and Captain Oi! records released the 'Pure Punk Rock' CD [14 old songs from the 80's and 6
new ones) late 95.
A few line up changes later and it's 1997. Sneddy [E.M. guitarist and only original member has moved in to my humble
abode and we've recruited Billy and Stu [ex-DENTS/ SKROTEEZ/ EXPLOITED/ SWINE FLU] so now EXTERNAL
MENACE is based in Livi. [only Jobe didn't come from the town].
We brought out the first EXTERNAL MENACE record in 13 years, then another then the first ever proper album [see list
by the band. ,, It had taken 18 years!!!
Sneddy had originally formed EXTERNAL
MENACE in Coatbridge [near Glasgow] in 1979!!
We also made it over to mainland Europe to play
4 tours in 2 years.[E.M. had never been over
before], took part in the first 2 ' Holidays In The
Sun' punk festivals in Blackpool in '96 and
Morecambe '97 playing to our biggest crowds and
went down well.
Early '98 and another split single is released [see
list) then a line up change before a UK tour and a
gig in Glasgow supporting SNUFF before a
summer European tour.
Disaster struck in Den Haag, Holland [one hour
before we were due onstage at a Punk festival) on
July 4th '98. I went to help 2 'mates' who were
getting attacked in the street by dutch football
hooligans - I got a metal baseball bat in the face
as the 2 'mates' ran off!! (Sounds familiar - PDC)
Broken nose, fractured eye socket and upper
jawbone smashed into a hundred pieces - I was
lucky to survive I looked like a purple football!
The Dutch surgeon said if the blow was 2cm
higher, my nose would have entered my brain and
of course I'd be dead!
i now have 4 metal plates in my face [under the
skin] holding it all together - the bastardo who did
it got 5 years but was probably out in two.
That was the end of my time in EXTERNAL
MENACE and being at the forefront of the Livi
punk scene as it took me at least 2 years to
recover from all that shit, where were the Livi
bootboys when I needed them???!!!
WELSHY - EXTERNAL MENACE/SWINEFLU
MENACE in Coatbridge [near Glasgow] in 1979!!
We also made it over to mainland Europe to play
4 tours in 2 years.[E.M. had never been over
before], took part in the first 2 ' Holidays In The
Sun' punk festivals in Blackpool in '96 and
Morecambe '97 playing to our biggest crowds and
went down well.
Early '98 and another split single is released [see
list) then a line up change before a UK tour and a
gig in Glasgow supporting SNUFF before a
summer European tour.
Disaster struck in Den Haag, Holland [one hour
before we were due onstage at a Punk festival) on
July 4th '98. I went to help 2 'mates' who were
getting attacked in the street by dutch football
hooligans - I got a metal baseball bat in the face
as the 2 'mates' ran off!! (Sounds familiar - PDC)
Broken nose, fractured eye socket and upper
jawbone smashed into a hundred pieces - I was
lucky to survive I looked like a purple football!
The Dutch surgeon said if the blow was 2cm
higher, my nose would have entered my brain and
of course I'd be dead!
i now have 4 metal plates in my face [under the
skin] holding it all together - the bastardo who did
it got 5 years but was probably out in two.
That was the end of my time in EXTERNAL
MENACE and being at the forefront of the Livi
punk scene as it took me at least 2 years to
recover from all that shit, where were the Livi
bootboys when I needed them???!!!
WELSHY - EXTERNAL MENACE/SWINEFLU
"LIVI PUNK BANDS-1978 TO PRESENT"
I] ON PAROLE.{78-83?} [demos and a few gigs,one in London]
2] THE DENTS.{79} [rehearsals only]
3] Skewer/ANOTHER YOUTH.{79-83?} [demos and a few gigs]
4] SKROTEEZ. {79-83} [3 track 'Overspill' EP 1982. Square Anarchy Records. A few gigs, some
in England]
5] JUVENILE DELINQUENTS {79-82?} [some gigs]
6] GLASGOW SS {79-83?} [demos and a few gigs]
7] BELSEN REJECTS. {79?} [rehearsals only]
8] HORROR SHOW.{80-83?} [some gigs] .
9] UGEN KAMPF{80-83?} [demos and a few gigs]
10] Red Alert/Anti-Social/BAYONET BABIES. {80-87?} [demos, lots of gigs and one track on
the 'Jello Aid' comp: album, 1986?]
II] ABUSE. {81 ?} [couple of gigs]
12] 1ST OFFENCE.{81-84?} [3 track ' The Night The Punks Turned Ugly' EP 1983. Chaos
Records. A few gigs]
13] DISGUST.{82?} [couple of gigs]
14] END RESULT.{83?} [rehearsals only] '
15] ABORT THE SYSTEM. {83?} [one gig]
16] UK ANARCHISTS.{84-86?} [demo and a few gigs]
17] INTERNAL DIMENSIONS.{84-87?} [demo and some gigs]
18] BARBED WIRE.{83-88?} [one track on 'Bullshit Detector' volume 2.1983? Crass Records,
10 track album,'The Age That Didnt Care'. 1986. Oi! Records, 5 track split album, 1987?, 0i!
Records, a few gigs, some in England.]
19] ANNIHILATE.{84?} [one gig]
20] IMPALED.{85} [rehearsals only]
21] SACRO SANCT.{86} [one gig]
22] MOLOTOV COCKTAIL {88-92?] [demos and a few gigs]
23] TSI CHARNA.{89?} [couple of gigs]
24] FLYING SAUCER NEWS. {90} [rehearsals only]
25] NOTHlNG TO SAY?{90-91} [demo and 7 gigs]
26] SWINE FLU. {92-95} ['Killing Time/Lost Innocence' single. 1994.Stranded Records, 2 tracks
on split single with Wat Tyler and Loadkings, 1997. Potential Ashtray records. Tracks on
various comp tapes. Cd's. Loads of gigs in UK and Europe]
27] CHINESE BURN.{92-present} [CD album and a few gigs, some in England]
28] CRITlKILL.{96-present] {4 track ' Our Way' EP.1999. Negative Records. A few gigs, 3 in
France]
29] EXTERNAL MENACE. {79-presentl} [originally started in Coatbridge, 1979.relocated to
Livingston after gaining some Livi punkz as members in 1997. Releases in that time - 5 track
'Seize The Day' EP. 1997.Negative records, one track split single with Rectify. 1997.
Suspect Device records, two track split single with Recharge. 1998, Epistrophy records. 15
track album/ 'The Process Of Elimination'. 1997.Negative records - CD only/ same album.
1998. Epistrophy records - vinyl only/same album. 2000. 'Rock n Roller Records - cassette
only/ same album. 2004. Dr Strangerecords - cd only with 7 extra tracks. Various tracks on
comp: tapes and cds, loads of gigs in the UK and Europe.]
30] THE ASSASINS.{96-present} [demos and some gigs]
31] OVERSPILL {98-present} [one single and a few gigs.some in England.]
Ok, hope I haven't forgotten anyone and all the info is correct, we!l, I did my best
lads.........Welshy.
I] ON PAROLE.{78-83?} [demos and a few gigs,one in London]
2] THE DENTS.{79} [rehearsals only]
3] Skewer/ANOTHER YOUTH.{79-83?} [demos and a few gigs]
4] SKROTEEZ. {79-83} [3 track 'Overspill' EP 1982. Square Anarchy Records. A few gigs, some
in England]
5] JUVENILE DELINQUENTS {79-82?} [some gigs]
6] GLASGOW SS {79-83?} [demos and a few gigs]
7] BELSEN REJECTS. {79?} [rehearsals only]
8] HORROR SHOW.{80-83?} [some gigs] .
9] UGEN KAMPF{80-83?} [demos and a few gigs]
10] Red Alert/Anti-Social/BAYONET BABIES. {80-87?} [demos, lots of gigs and one track on
the 'Jello Aid' comp: album, 1986?]
II] ABUSE. {81 ?} [couple of gigs]
12] 1ST OFFENCE.{81-84?} [3 track ' The Night The Punks Turned Ugly' EP 1983. Chaos
Records. A few gigs]
13] DISGUST.{82?} [couple of gigs]
14] END RESULT.{83?} [rehearsals only] '
15] ABORT THE SYSTEM. {83?} [one gig]
16] UK ANARCHISTS.{84-86?} [demo and a few gigs]
17] INTERNAL DIMENSIONS.{84-87?} [demo and some gigs]
18] BARBED WIRE.{83-88?} [one track on 'Bullshit Detector' volume 2.1983? Crass Records,
10 track album,'The Age That Didnt Care'. 1986. Oi! Records, 5 track split album, 1987?, 0i!
Records, a few gigs, some in England.]
19] ANNIHILATE.{84?} [one gig]
20] IMPALED.{85} [rehearsals only]
21] SACRO SANCT.{86} [one gig]
22] MOLOTOV COCKTAIL {88-92?] [demos and a few gigs]
23] TSI CHARNA.{89?} [couple of gigs]
24] FLYING SAUCER NEWS. {90} [rehearsals only]
25] NOTHlNG TO SAY?{90-91} [demo and 7 gigs]
26] SWINE FLU. {92-95} ['Killing Time/Lost Innocence' single. 1994.Stranded Records, 2 tracks
on split single with Wat Tyler and Loadkings, 1997. Potential Ashtray records. Tracks on
various comp tapes. Cd's. Loads of gigs in UK and Europe]
27] CHINESE BURN.{92-present} [CD album and a few gigs, some in England]
28] CRITlKILL.{96-present] {4 track ' Our Way' EP.1999. Negative Records. A few gigs, 3 in
France]
29] EXTERNAL MENACE. {79-presentl} [originally started in Coatbridge, 1979.relocated to
Livingston after gaining some Livi punkz as members in 1997. Releases in that time - 5 track
'Seize The Day' EP. 1997.Negative records, one track split single with Rectify. 1997.
Suspect Device records, two track split single with Recharge. 1998, Epistrophy records. 15
track album/ 'The Process Of Elimination'. 1997.Negative records - CD only/ same album.
1998. Epistrophy records - vinyl only/same album. 2000. 'Rock n Roller Records - cassette
only/ same album. 2004. Dr Strangerecords - cd only with 7 extra tracks. Various tracks on
comp: tapes and cds, loads of gigs in the UK and Europe.]
30] THE ASSASINS.{96-present} [demos and some gigs]
31] OVERSPILL {98-present} [one single and a few gigs.some in England.]
Ok, hope I haven't forgotten anyone and all the info is correct, we!l, I did my best
lads.........Welshy.